aikido connection

I thought I might just chip in on this. I agree with Buddy that there is no direct evidence for a connection. But we should also remember that the ideology of the aikido and daito-ryu people would incline them to deny it, even if there was evidence.

Historically it is possible that Ueshiba was exposed to some Bagua. John Stephen's biography of Ueshiba reports that he was professor of martial arts at Manchuko University in the 1930s and '40s. (Manchuko was the Chinese puppet state in north China controlled by the Japanese). Given Ueshiba's eclectic experimentation with and research of other Japanese styles in his creation of Aikido, it seems out of character that he would not have been curious about Chinese martial arts, at least to observe and discuss, if not directly learn. It might have been difficult for a Japanese of Ueshiba's status to openly participate in Chinese martial arts, but other Japanese did so at the time - Kenichi Sawaii for one.

Interestingly those elements of aikido which most resemble Bagua seem to emerge later in Ueshiba's development, i.e. from the 1930s onward. So, a Bagua/Aikido connection, if not provable, certainly there are circumstances it which it might have been possible.

But even if true, the Bagua influence would be just a small part of Ueshiba's complex creation.And I suspect Wang was a fairly (I hate this term for what it has come to mean politcally) progressive guy for his day. I suspect the baguazhang school might have been a little more closed for a Japanese man thern. Some years back I bought a tape which I have since converted to dvd which shows O Sensei going his stuff--about thirty minutes of it. Lots of it looks like bagua applications to me. That of course does not prove that he got there by the same route. And I suspect Wang was a fairly (I hate this term for what it has come to mean politcally) progressive guy for his day. I suspect the baguazhang school might have been a little more closed for a Japanese man thern. I did Aikido for 8 years before spending the last 18 doing Ba Gua and other CMA.

Aikido only has two attacks, shomenuchi and tsuki. They correspond in every way to Hsing-I Pi Chuan and Beng Chuan. Aikido's footwork drill Tai No Hen Ko is exactly the same as Ba Gua Ko Bu Bai Bu without the circle.

Every single Aikido technique is found within Ba Gua, and they are done in much the same flowing, connected manner depending on the practitioner. Aikido's multi attacker Randori is identical to the Ba Gua approach to multiple attackers.

I remember when Luo De Xiu first showed up in Pa Kua Journal, and the techniques they printed were so similar to Aikido I had to blink a few times...

None of this is conclusive, but since Ueshiba spend years in northern China during WWII it's quite possible he learned some CMA. Since BKF studied with Ueshiba and also learned Ba Gua he probably has the best insight into this than any of us. Even he says it's only a theory.

I've written up extensive comparisons here on this board if anyone cares to search it. It's a favorite topic of mine! Just to clarify, I started Aikido in 1986 and I started Ba Gua around 1991, so I trained both for a number of years. I still like Aikido, but mostly practice Ba Gua and Chinese martial arts on a daily basis. That Baby Girl arrive yet ?

Thanks for all your help to me personally at Kumars recent Kamp at Menlo. It's people like you and Isaac who do so much for the Arts and Traditions we love.

I know that John Lacey is coming down from up here to attend your "San Ti" Offering in July. He thinks you and Isaac have the goods, and he has been at it for 20 something years.

what san ti offering?! you guys doing a workshop?

Good to see you too my friend! Wish is was easier to meet up with my classmates. And it will be good to practice with John too, he's got a lot of training under his belt.

No new baby yet, 5 days overdue now, so it should be soon....

And yes, we are having an all day Hsing-I training on Sunday July 11, anyone who wants to practice come on down! Heavy emphasis on San Ti, then work on some of the Five Elements forms. We'll get into some of the stuff that Kumar was teaching last weekend too.

As always, a full report will appear here on the TWT message board!